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An Interview with Celeste Ng, Author of Everything I Never Told You

Celeste Ng is the author of the novel Everything I Never Told You, which was a New York Times bestseller, a New York Times Notable Book of 2014, Amazon’s #1 Best Book of 2014, and named a best book of the year by over a dozen publications. Everything I Never Told You was also the winner of the Asian/Pacific American Award for Literature and the ALA’s Alex Award, and was a finalist for numerous awards, including the Ohioana Award, the John Creasey (New Blood) Dagger Award, the VCU Cabell First Novelist Award and the Massachusetts Book Award.

Celeste grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Shaker Heights, Ohio, in a family of scientists. She attended Harvard University and earned an MFA from the University of Michigan, where she won the Hopwood Award. Her fiction and essays have appeared in One Story, TriQuarterly, Bellevue Literary Review, the Kenyon Review Online, and elsewhere, and she is a recipient of the Pushcart Prize. Celeste and I first connected on Twitter after I read her book, and she graciously agreed to chat with me about the novel, her writing routine, being part of and writing about interracial families, how to address issues of race and representation without being pigeonholed, writing outside one’s own culture, what she’s working on now, and much more!

Nicole Chung: Celeste, I have told you this so many times it must be getting old by now, but I absolutely loved your novel. My husband bought it for me, and then I bought it for half a dozen of my friends and relatives, and every single one of them sang its praises. My sister particularly enjoyed it; her exact words were: “Thank you. And damn you, too. By the end I was crying and slightly traumatized, but I loved it.”

How did the idea for this novel come to you? Was it difficult working on such a tragic story, and why did you decide to focus on such tough issues — misunderstanding and racism and unfulfilled dreams and the grief of losing a child?

Celeste Ng: Thank you! Both for the kind words and for sharing. The novel emerged, as most of my work does, when several seemingly unrelated things collided in my mind and I had to try and figure out why my mind was connecting them. My husband happened to tell me a story about his school days: when he was about 8, he was at a friend’s house when the friend pushed his own little sister into a pond in the backyard. She was pulled out immediately by her parents, but I kept thinking, what if they hadn’t been there? What was the relationship between this brother and sister like before he pushed her — and what was it like after?

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Dare To Be Different

When I was in high school, I saw myself as someone who moved between cliques. My main friend group included smart athletic types, potheads, and nerds (we wouldn’t have classified ourselves in that way—we would have said we were “normal”). Many of us were in Model U.N., mostly because it meant a trip every year. A few of us were friends with the more popular kids. A few of us who played sports were friends with the jocks. A few of us were friends with the weird kids. A few of us were friends with the theater kids. Who was I? My junior year, I started an Angelfire site with a friend. I got my first email address: [email protected]. I lifted weights regularly. I played a lot of Mario Kart. I made a tie-dye t-shirt one summer with a red star crushing a donkey and an elephant. I never drank alcohol. My idea of fun was to drive around on less-frequented roads or play tackle football on crashmats at the nearby University of Connecticut.

I had been best friends with one of the popular group, once. I had made fun of and felt bad about making fun of the weird kids. I had a crush on a theater kid. I wanted to believe that it was important to me that I was not like the popular group, that I accepted everyone, or almost everyone. I was the only adopted kid in school, and to be liked was, most of all, to be known for something other than being adopted.

One year, there was a report or something that our school was too cliquish, and everyone rushed to say that it was not. Someone created t-shirts that said, “DARE TO BE DIFFERENT.” There was some pressure on us to wear these t-shirts. I hated them. Every shirt was the same, yet they professed a desire for difference. I got caught up in the irony, which wasn’t quite irony. I didn’t see that what really bothered me about the shirts was that to wear them meant something different for a white kid than for a Korean adoptee.

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Intoxicating Women: Travels in Gin and Gender

I’m sitting alone in Girvan, Scotland, on one of the longest days of the year, looking at the late sun and thinking about the women who all of a sudden caught fire.

There were a good number of them. Enough, in the 1700s, to constitute a chapter in the medical literature. The most-quoted British case is Grace Pitt, a 60ish female whose charred corpse was discovered one morning in 1744—like “a log of wood, consumed by a fire.” But there was no fire in the grate. And nothing else in the room had been singed. Pitt was caught, it seemed, in a strange flame that came from within.

Until recently, I knew of spontaneous combustion only from Krook in Bleak House, whose demise seemed ridiculous to me before I picked up the novel and unblinkingly terrifying when I got to the passage in question. But the eerie little tradition that Dickens extends makes a man like Krook exceptional as well as late. (Bleak House began publication in 1852.) In the eighteenth century, those who burn are often as mysterious as Krook; many are poor; many are single or widowed; almost all are old. As Dickens himself wrote in a letter, however, the real-life cases were “all of women.”

How did combustion happen? Of course it didn’t. But one cause was reasonable enough: gin. A dissembling liquid— sometimes clear as water, sometimes cloudy with dubious flavors. The newest, most dangerous of the hard liquors. Those who drank too much soaked their very flesh and blood in its treachery. Fire was the just consequence.

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My Only Carriage: On Naming a Nameless Disability

Before I saw the man’s body shake, I saw his shopping cart shake. He’d pulled out the child’s seat and put three folded shirts there, all striped through three different colorways. The belly of the cart was empty, and so I looked at his arms. They held his hands awkwardly, palms pushed forward, like a child getting ready to push up his shoulders and say Idon’tknow. Then I saw the hands themselves, their fingers and thumbs curled around the cart’s handle. The knuckles were small and white circles. I zoomed out, like a camera, looking at more of him. I saw the orange expanse of his top, then his jeans, which were the kind of blue that’s either faded or pre-washed. And without seeing his actual knees, I knew that his actual knees were actually locked. I knew he was afraid that he would start shaking. That he wouldn’t be able to stand up or still or straight. That he would fall, right there in the returns and exchanges line, right next to the Coinstar machine telling us in its bold yellow way that it had coins to the power of more.

I knew, in other words, that something had gone wrong in his body and he was working very hard to make his body look normal. I knew this because I was also standing with my actual knees actually locked. I knew this because I was afraid that I wouldn’t be able to stand up or still or straight. That I would fall right there in the return line and next to the Coinstar machine with all of its coins to the power of more. In other words, something had gone wrong in my body. I always work very hard to make my body stand up and still and straight, so I knew what he and I were doing. We were in our heads, talking to our bodies. In our heads and saying to our bodies, keep still keep still.

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The Light: On Teaching, Childhood, and a School Shooting

“Keep your hands to yourself,” I say to Alma, one of the pre-K students at my school. Alma narrows her eyes and gives me a look that says Go to hell. She is holding a sharpened pencil, readying it to poke another student. “I’m watching you. Put it away.”

I see my former student, Claudia, running from the sidewalk into the street. Why aren’t the teachers stopping her? I look around for the music teacher who usually monitors the buses and notice that everyone else is looking the same way. There are other students behind Claudia, also running, toward something behind a bus that I could not see. I realize that while I was talking to Alma I had heard several loud bangs, BAM BAM BAM, like a bus had crashed, and the noise is still echoing in my head as I watch the children run. I am still registering the noise, the running, when I see Ms. Viola gesture wildly in the street and yell something incomprehensible into the walkie-talkie.

I immediately look at Jorge. The youngest pre-kindergartner, I am convinced his parents lied about his age so he could attend school. He is barely big enough to carry the backpack hugging his bony shoulders. He punches someone on the leg and the student cries out; I reach for Jorge’s hand and am moving him to sit on a patch of grass next to me when I hear screaming.

“It’s a mother,” I hear someone say on the walkie-talkie, the voice echoing. “Dear God,” I think I hear them say; I can’t tell. I have been highly sensitive since I was fired from my fourth-grade class. Am I imagining a catastrophe?

I look back at the students sitting along the low-slung school wall, waiting for their parents, making sure to watch them and not get distracted again. Probably it’s just some accident.

Later I will find out that, fifteen feet away from where I stood, a group of children — including Claudia — surrounded a woman’s body on the sidewalk. Her head was in a pool of blood, her palms facing the sky, fingers curled, as if she had simply dropped a note on the way to pick up her daughter from school. It was 3:10 when she was shot, walking to pick up her daughter from school, walking past the apartments where many of our students live.

I always wonder if Kareem was one of the students who saw her.

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“I wanted to figure out why we’re so scared of feelings”: An Interview with Tavi Gevinson

Trailing clouds of glitter from a surprise Broadway triumph in Kenneth Lonergan’s serio-comedy This Is Our YouthRookie magazine founder Tavi Gevinson has expanded her extensive resume to include publishing maven. In addition to compiling the fourth Rookie Yearbook, due out this fall, Gevinson just made her debut as a literary editor. In the July/August issue of Poetry, the 103-year-old magazine that introduced American readers to the likes of Ezra Pound, Langston Hughes, and Edna St. Vincent Millay, Gevinson curated and edited more than 50 pages of poems, prose and art, including a self-deprecating, funny, charming essay she wrote about her own evolution as a writer and a reader. She celebrates the kind of sincerity adults are taught to reject; her selections are optimistic, unironic, and downright joyful.

Gevinson and I talked on the phone about poetry, feelings, moving to New York, and her ever-evolving personal aesthetic—she is, after all, still 19.

Eugenia Williamson: In the essay you wrote in Poetry, you talk about the embarrassment you felt about liking Sylvia Plath when you were a young teenager and other ways poetry conjures embarrassment. Tell me more!

Tavi Gevinson: I wouldn’t be comfortable writing poetry myself. I wrote about the shame or stigma I felt around it, and [I wasn’t talking about] the challenge of great poets that you study in English class. Where I went to school, there was a spoken word program, and it was a requirement every year. The teacher who ran the program would come in to your class and run a week-long workshop. I was just too embarrassed to share this stuff with my classmates. I didn’t want to expose [myself] trying to be deep or any of that. I just blew it off a lot of the time. The one time I really tried, I couldn’t get through it without laughing at myself.

Now I feel like it’s really silly to be afraid of those things, and I should have embraced something I’m good at, which is speaking candidly about how I feel. It’s kind of funny—that’s something that maybe you naturally have as a kid or is somewhat innate to childhood, the way kids are brutally honest. Somewhere along the line, you’re like, “Oh wait, life is a competition,” and everything is a reality show; everything is an episode of “The Apprentice.” You learn about parts of the world where the currency is how much you can withhold. But eventually, you learn that if you actually communicate with people then you’ll have happier relationships. [With this essay], I wanted to figure out why we’re so scared of feelings.

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Shirley Jackson and Me

When it comes to literary daydreaming, I’m not one for those imaginary dinner parties, with artisanally curated assemblages of Great Authors of All Time swapping deft bon mots between courses. Mostly, I’m sure, I’d end up worrying about Emily Dickinson’s food allergies and regretting having brought Nathanael West and Jacqueline Susann into the same room (hey, you choose your Great Authors, I’ll choose mine). Also, I don’t have a lot of chairs.

I’m a copy editor by trade—a tinkerer with commas, a corrector of faulty grammar, a watchdog against tics and clichés—and my notion of an ideal tête-a-tête with, say, Edith Wharton would run less toward swapping aperçus over canapés and more toward seeing if I could persuade her to stop loading the dreaded “the fact that” into every third paragraph, as she was wont to do. Or perhaps instead of keeping an anxious eye on F. Scott Fitzgerald’s wineglass I might more valuably let him know that he needn’t hang an adverb on every goddamn speech tag in The Great Gatsby.

Well, we all have our particular ideas of fun.

But what happens when the copyeditorial fantasy comes to corporeal life and the presumptuous red pencil wielder is faced with a stack of very real pages written by a very real—and very dead—Great Author of All Time, a Great Author of All Time who happens to be his Favorite Author of All Time?

Let me tell you.

I don’t recall when I was first well and truly bewitched by Shirley Jackson. Sure, like just about everybody else in America, I read “The Lottery” in junior high, no doubt in that same short-story anthology with “Leiningen Versus the Ants,” “The Most Dangerous Game,” and Katherine Mansfield’s “The Garden Party,” and no doubt I liked it, but a steady diet of ABC Movies of the Week—Olivia de Havilland in The Screaming Woman!—had acclimated me to menacing story arcs and macabre twist endings, and I can’t say that reading Jackson’s exquisitely slow-boiling account of the day poor Tessie Hutchinson is not crowned Queen for a Day made a life-changing impression on me.

I can be pretty sure that I found my way to Jackson by way of a late-night telecast—back in the days when to catch a late-night telecast one actually had to stay up late—of The Haunting, director Robert Wise’s 1963 filming of Jackson’s 1959 novel The Haunting of Hill House. The movie features a scene, which I can still barely stand to watch by myself, in which Julie Harris and Claire Bloom are beset by a spectral something-or-other whaling away cacophonously at their hopefully locked bedroom door. But as nerve-racking as the movie is, I soon learned that the novel, which I first owned in a movie tie-in paperback that eventually fell apart from overreading, is even more effectively chain-rattling.

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Visible Faith: On Grad School and Ageism

Any woman who goes back to school at the age of 68 for a degree that seems to be, on the face of it, entirely worthless is necessarily living by faith. When I returned to Columbia University’s School of the Arts to secure an M.F.A. in creative nonfiction, I know I sure was. Trusting that the universe would provide, that the usual impediments would simply melt away, I, the faithful one, plunged in, seeking a way to carve out what might yet be left of a future. Most people, considering my age and my past life, thought I was there more out of vanity than a bid for survival. Now, as I near the completion of the program, as I struggle to write my nonfiction thesis and my Literary Translation thesis, as I stave off the need to face what comes next by taking shelter for another year in a “research arts” program, I have to wonder if it’s possible to maintain my faith.

It’s been a fitful two years in my M.F.A. program — much of it fabulous, some of it plain frustrating. Walking the twenty blocks uphill from my apartment in Harlem to my Columbian Valhalla every day, I envision myself gifted with the opportunity to exchange ideas with the gods. Every class has afforded me an opportunity to rethink something I thought I already knew, to perfect my craft, to acquire and assemble facts, to turn my beliefs upside down and then to realign them. It has been glorious, but not without trials and errors.

Some of the ancillary staff at Columbia found me odd at first. Guards and librarians would cast disbelieving looks my way, even as I displayed my student I.D., and they would often challenge me to prove I was a student and not an interloper. Once they were thoroughly convinced, however, they never forgot, and then treated me with a degree of respect I still don’t believe I deserve. My decision to go back to school was not brave. I had left home — my husband’s home — and my marriage at age 55 to seek a new life. When I later chose to go to Columbia, I was motivated by sheer necessity. I had reached a dead end and could not afford to retire.

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