Close-Reading “Dear Prudie”
HAVE YOU SEEN the thing in “Dear Prudie” about the mom wanting her son’s girlfriend to wear a bra? Oh, of course you have. Everyone reads “Dear Prudie.” What’s that perfect Kids in the Hall thing about Doors fans? Right now there’s an old lady on the subway, sucking on a humbug. She’s a “Dear Prudie” fan, but she’s never read the WORDS. Slate is already mostly doing this, but any consultant could look at that site and tell you that they need to chain Prudie to a radiator so she can write fourteen thousand columns a day instead of just eleven. She is our nation’s greatest natural resource. The answers aren’t even important. It’s the questions. The questions. Let’s explore:
1. My 20-year-old son “Ted” has a 19-year-old girlfriend named “Dahlia.”
The decision to adopt “Ted” and “Dahlia” as fake names suggests either a slightly-older sensibility, or that she is secretly obsessed with famous murderers and victims, or that she just has murder on her mind now, because of this issue.
2. “Dahlia is very well-endowed and rarely wears a bra.”
Yeah, being 19 is great like that. I remember! Oh, man. My breasts are smaller now, after having a kid, weirdly, so if my nipples didn’t kinda point in slightly different directions, I’d be there right now, chilling with “Dahlia.”
3. However, she does wear low-cut clothing and often looks like she’s about to fall out.
Maybe you could move her into more side-boob-revealing, less cleavage-revealing outfits? Way less falling-out risk, and side-boob is a great look. Just a thought!
4. The dress she was wearing last night was so small on her that it she couldn’t zip it up all the way and she was very close to a nip slip. When she walked in the door she looked at me, shrugged her shoulders and said, “I know this is a low-cut dress” as if she knew she was coming to my house, knew what my expectations are, but came looking like that anyway.
I am going to go out on a CRAZY LIMB HERE, and guess that you were giving her one of these, and not for the first time:
5. Here’s my problem: She’s going on vacation with us in a week.
Oh my goddddd. Can I come? Where are you going? How long will you be gone?
6. I don’t want to seem prudish but I do want to get through to her that this type of dress isn’t appropriate for the places we’ll be going and the people we’ll be seeing.
Please tell me there’s a cotillion. Or a trip to visit aged relatives in a retirement community? A tour of the Vatican? Or, maybe I’m reading this all wrong, and what you mean is that you’ll be fighting off wolves in the Yukon, so a breast falling out of a top could result in confusion and death?
7. I’ll be asking her before we leave if she’s got bras in her suitcase and I am ready to leave her behind if she doesn’t or make her go out and buy a few or buy them for her.
What a wonderful start to the trip. Do you want to ask her while everyone is standing around, or once people are already in the car, or grimly over breakfast? Because you’ll need time in case you have to go buy bras for a surly 19 y/o who probably doesn’t even know her cup size. Maybe she’ll pull a Sue Ellen Mischke!
8. How do I handle this without alienating her but helping her to understand that something that is fine when you’re out clubbing is not fine when you’re trying to make a good impression with your boyfriend’s family?
Oh, hm, that’s actually a real question which can be answered: your son is going to eventually break up with this sort of spacey, impolite girl to whom you have likely been chilly and unpleasant, so you can either do just what you just said, don’t change a word, and hasten that whole situation, or you can say:
“Ted,” please tell “Dahlia” that we’d rather she dress more conservatively on the trip. Like a bra, she should wear one. Or don’t bring her. Or don’t come yourself, you’re 20, and we’re going to a cotillion.
Best of luck.
Tags: advice, bras, come on now, dear prudie, nip slips, tegan and sara
Related Posts
She Said, She Said: Advice on Roommates and Trust
No One’s Slick As Gaston: A Pickup Artist’s Guide
She Said, She Said: Advice on Yappy Coworkers and Being Poorer Than You Want
Lessons I’ve Learned From Being a Therapist
How To Respond To Criticism
Raising the Tone: Etiquette for Accepting Apologies and Acknowledging Loss
Please do this every day. And always use Tegan & Sara gifs.
More Tegan & Sara gifs everywhere please.
Yes. Please always Tegan & Sara gifs.
Non-bra-wearing 19 year old
run
run
run with your breasts bouncing
this woman doesn't hate you because you don't wear a bra she ahtes you because her son is dating a girl who is not exactly the one she pictured for him
this will never get better (I have experience)
so run
let your boobs be free while you still can
also
she nicknamed you "Dahlia"
SHE NICKNAMED YOU "DAHLIA"
run indeed. run fast.
fleeee
fleee
do it for his future girlfriends because if he really likes you and you run because of his mum maybe he'll stand up to her in future and his future wife won't be constantly condescended to and trodden on by her mother-in-law!
(this is the type of mother-in-law who calls you and makes passive-agressive comments about how you cook and clean the house and probably gets upset if you keep working or don't have kids or do ANYTHING that isn't EXACTLY the way she'd have done it)
I kind of wonder/hope whether or not the girlfriend is just trolling her boyfriend's mom. Maybe she would acquiesce to a bra-shopping trip, only to cut lower cleavage into the cups and wear them on the outside of her dresses.
"Oh, this isn't how they work? Sorry."
Also, a family vacation this time of year makes me automatically think of the beach. Which.. if the mom has problems with her son's girlfriend's breasts and how she supports them, she's in for a world of pain.
I hope she buys a bunch of demi-cup bras so her nipples are still winking at people through her clothes and she has just as much a chance of falling out
look, my mum almost never wears a bra and neither do I (I wear one with certain tops or when I go out) and my aunt had to tell my mum to wear a bra for my wedding and I CAN'T IMAGINE IT WENT WELL (but my mum did wear a bra for my wedding) so I GET IT OK
But it's not a big deal!
If it's not a socially-appropriate setting for non-braing, just say 'this social setting is not appropriate for going without a bra' and then you've warned her and if she chooses to still not then she's gonna have to deal with the consequences
Or she could buy a bunch of unlined bras, and wet her nipples with cold water to make them stick out, and wear tight and/or sheer shirts.
Also, my breasts aren't that big, but I kind of wish I spent my late teenage years running around braless now.
I was a nice, healthy middling size and I basically never wore a bra in public until I was 22 (except at work or under certain tops). And I don't regret a single one of those days because I was young and firm enough to do it.
Why waste my firmest, perkiest years strapped into lace and underwire?
When I was a child, I think I saw it as a sign that I had reached adulthood since my mother and my older sister (she's got 9.5 years on me) had them. I sometimes freeboob if I'm wearing something where I'm sure my nipples won't show if I'm cold though.
"Why waste my firmest, perkiest years strapped into lace and underwire?"
One word: chafing.
I got more chafing from WEARING bras. Still do, in fact.
This makes me feel like I should stop wearing a bra right now. And not start until I turn 24. These might be my last years from youthful braless-ness. (Although I feel you on the chaffing sometimes)
Well, I am 24, and I am not wearing a bra currently, and I feel pretty great about it. I recommend it.
yes, this, exactly. except i have been "ted" in this situation, and so i feel bad for him, too, because that is a terrible place to be. i hope he and dahlia bail on the cotillion. yikes. i bet she looked fine in the dress.
Also 'I know it's low cut' sounds more like she put on a favourite dress only to discover it was now too small and there wasn't enough time to put on another and she was embarrassed! And maybe that's why she doesn't wear bras because she had one of those late-teen body spurts and doesn't have any that fit any more and doesn't really have to money to buy loads of new ones!
*wents from a size 6 C cup to a size 12 F cup in five months*
This is not the first time I have heard of mothers buying lingerie for their son's girlfriends. Unsolicited. This is weird, yes?
I'm always a little uncomfortable at the thought of anyone buying anyone else lingerie, with the exception of significant others.
My older, female cousin bought me fancy bridal lingerie (a matching bra/underwear set) for my bridal shower. They were really pretty, and not something I would've splurged on, so I appreciate it, but it's still weird to me!
very weird
creepy
borderline incestuous
Very V.C. Andrews.
Speaking of which (and I'm sure you saw this on tumblr), whose horrifying idea was this cover?
<img src="http://img.rakuten.com/PIC/30383704/0/1/500/30383704.jpg">
They are definitely misleading everyone with that cover. You would think that it's about two perfect preppy blonde kids who fall in love over the summer. Not a terrible book- like really terrible
I think if you're younger it's ok for your own mum to buy it for you because you can't afford it otherwise (why are bras so goddamn expensive?) but otherwise only people who are going to see you in it. I do think it's extremely weird and creepy and maybe this woman should just keep her eyes UP a little instead of obsessing over the girl's boobs.
Honestly, I'm just kind of wondering: if I freeboob it next time I see my boyfriend's mom, will she buy me a bra? Because I could use a new one, but I spend all my money on gin and lipstick.
Maybe this was her plan all along. Wear no bras, drive boyfriend's mother batty, boyfriends mother offers to buy more bras, acquire bras, leave. It's like a lingerie-magnet long con.
So, hypothetically, if I were to walk around pantsless, various older women of my acquaintance would buy me undies? Interesting.
That's because you have your priorities in order.
Please do this for all of them. What a dumbass answer Prudie gave. It is in no way appropriate for this woman to force underwear choices/shopping on her son's girlfriend. Realistically, if she wants this to happen she should talk to her son and have him talk to the girlfriend, and he should be like, yo if you want to come on a vacation with us you need to stop blasting your nips constantly or else no vacay because you'll embarrass my mom at the cotillion.
All of Prudie's answers are terrible. She gives horrible advice. I suspect she thinks just as many of her letters are totally fake as the rest of us do.
Yes, please. Prudie is awful, ranging from head-in-butt to downright dangerous and harmful advice.
She's totally inflexible about what real life is like for anyone who isn't exactly like her, and I find it infuriating. I can't even hate-read her column anymore because I get too upset about what it must be like for the people reading that advice, and/or how she's endorsed their rigid, selfish world view, like she has this time. (Although I'll be honest, I appreciated the puns in this answer)
"Now, has everyone remembered to pack their toothbrush?
…. and their pajamas?
…. and their bras?
…. and not just the flimsy mesh kind from American Apparel, I mean the REAL kind with underwire and full coverage and support?
…everyone?"
Such tact. This trip should go swimmingly.
I don't understand why the mom invited the girlfriend on vacation in the first place. You chose your choice lady. Although I would just be like here are the events/dress codes/here's a packing list! Oh how helpful am I! so helpful! this is way transparent isn't it.
Prudie's advice for the second letter was even more brutal! I don't think the LW anywhere said she wants the wife to die or that the rugrats are awful. But then again, she did write "don't judge" in a letter to DP and thought she would get a reasonable response, so … poor choices all around people.
hahaa has "don't judge" ever worked anywhere at all? You may as well say just don't TELL me how you're judging me, because that's as good as it gets. also, this chick… she's all I'm with this dude who was married and he just randomly decided to split up with his wife, nothing to do with me, oh btw they have a child, whyyyy is he still giving his ex-wife money?
Yeah, I don't much like the LW or Prudie's answer. I understand his reasons for giving his ex-wife money to allow her to follow through with her plans to go to school, because when she made said plans she was counting on having a husband to support her while she did it. He doesn't have to do it, but he's doing it and that's his choice. But either way he should definitely support the kids. That's what happens when people get divorced. If the LW doesn't like it, she should break up with him and find herself a man who has never had a wife or kids.
I make more money than my boyfriend, and he makes unfairly inflated child support payments for his kids. Because we live together, I'm ultimately the one who has to make up for that lost income. It sucks, but I'm not going to kick him to the curb just because he doesn't have $800 a month to spend on me. If I wasn't okay with the situation, I would live on my own until his youngest is out of college.
Any time any one says "don't judge" it usually means they are probably doing something very judge worthy. I'm okay with the scorn heaped on her by Prudie in this instance.
Yeah, my ex husband asked all our friends not to judge or demonize him when he got caught having a long-term affair and many other awful things. Much to his chagrin, people still judged, and for good reason! (And those who didn't just were assholes and/or not really my friends after all!)
You guys, I just did that up thread about Flowers in the Attic. I am ashamed.
Any time any one says "don't judge" it usually means they are probably doing something very judge worthy. I'm okay with the scorn heaped on her by Prudie in this instance.
Oh I'm not defending lady's behaviour, but I won't defend Prudie's heaping scorn either cuz I don't think that kind of tone is very conducive to getting people to take your advice. BUT it is her prerogative to talk down like that to advice-seekers, so, to repeat, poor choices all around!
I find Prudie to be a mystery- her scorn is heaped haphazardly sometimes. Unless you are a woman who gets drunk, then Prudie's scorn is predictable: you are clearly a vixen who deserves everything you get.
As much as I love reading Prudie, I don't think I'd ever invite her over for dinner and drinks.
oh gosh. for me it would go down like, consuming many drinks "just to settle the nerves" before she even arrived, and, well, I'm sure things would spiral down fairly predictably from there.
Right? I didn't even get invited to my own family's vacations once I hit 18.
"You chose your choice" = perfection.
No kidding! It's like the time my girlfriend's parents invited me to the family reunion, and then asked us to pretend that we were "just good friends" in front of certain members of the family and their children, so that they "wouldn't remember us instead of the beach." Ummm, really? Like a couple of twenty-something lesbians, holding hands, in swimwear, could compete with a BEACH? Where there is sand, and waves, and stuff? If you didn't want the lesbian girlfriend at the family reunion, just don't invite me to go to Georgia in the summer.
You were ruining their vacation with your lesbianism. You are so ungrateful. ;)
This is perfect. I'm obsessed with Dear Prudence. She definitely gets the most insane letters of all the advice columns (probably because most of them are made up).
This woman needs to not micromanage her son's gf's tits. Obviously this chick can tell it bothers her and is just rubbing it in her face now, which is hilarious.
"This woman needs to not micromanage her son's gf's tits" ah thank god I didn't have soda in my mouth when I read this! hahahahahaha
Rubbing it in his mom's face…this is beginning to sound like a porn.
I can't remotely be bothered to even try to figure out the family relationships in Q4.
I thought sideboob was over, shouldn't she be suggesting Dahlia look into underboob now?
Sidenote: I ACTUALLY HAVEN'T BEEN READING PRUDIE AT ALL LATELY WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME.
Underboob is definitely more hip now than sideboob, but imo less comfortable. I favor equal-opportunity for side- and under- boobage.
Also underboob-cut-shirts, if you raise your hands abruptly (as one might do at a cotillion) (what do you do at a cotillion?) can get reallllly drafty!
What?! I never quite got the hang of side boob and now there's underboob? Is underboob what I think underboob is?
My first introduction to underboob was that Van Halen video where he's in the convenience store. The scandalousness of her shirt blew my little mind.
I was once dancing at a party with a (gay, male) friend of mine, and he sort of salaciously stroked my cheek down to the top of my boob. This was the first time he had done this and he's also really, really not into girls, so I was confused, but then he did it again, and I was annoyed, and told him so. His response: "What?! The overboob is the LEAST important part of the boob."
He now apologizes for this, but the lesson I learned that night is clear: STICK UP FOR THE OVERBOOB. Too often the noble overboob is cast aside because it is more commonly seen than the other parts of the boob. And yet it is vital.
TRUE LIFE STORY: In college I worked a summer job where I lived out of a suitcase and had access to laundry only every other weekend. My boyfriend picked me up for one of these weekend trips home one time. On this day, I was wearing the only clean clothes left in my suitcase–jeans and a strappy microfiber tank top. Except OH WAIT, what he hadn't told me was that on the way to my house, we were stopping for a nice dinner where I would meet his grandmother for the first time.
His grandmother later called me a hussy. A HUSSY. Not to my face, but still.
Moral of the story: Warn a lady in advance. My goodness.
When I was 18 and visiting my first serious boyfriend's parents for the first time, I made the mistake of wearing a close-fitting vest with no shirt underneath to church. It was by no means indecent and didn't even show cleavage or my bra at all. Ordinarily I would have worn a thin t-shirt with it, but I had mistakenly packed an off-white one instead of a true white one, and it clashed horribly with the blue and white (floor-length!) skirt I brought to go with it. I was completely covered in all the important areas, but the crime of going sleeveless to a Baptist church is apparently an unforgivable one.
His mother never let me forget it. I don't remember her ever addressing it directly, but there were always passive-aggressive comments made in my direction about it. He told me she brought it up all the time, even years after we broke up.
Some people.
SOME PEOPLE
My grandma called me a floozy for wearing shorts. In Florida. In summer.
I WAS THIRTEEN.
(She was not a nice lady, but I find this story hilarious.)
Attn: Dahlia:
If you do not choose to RUN LIKE THE WIND and/or want to really mess with this crazy lady, do go purchase a bra, but make it the most obnoxiously insane push-up bra (I'm talking the ones with the inflatable bits in the cups and the adjustable cleavage thing in between. Ideally a bright neon, possibly with rhinestones and/or animal print). Wear with aforementioned low-cut dress. DGAF.
Nicole, you got me hooked on Prudie back in the early Lazy days and now my week is incomplete if I don't read the live chat and the regular column. I am despondent when Prudie goes on vacation. This was brilliant. Perhaps you should deconstruct one Prudie letter week…
True cotillion boob story here:
I was once at an actual cotillion, and was asked to dance by a tipsy, turned-out-to-be-very-drunk guy. While dancing, he yanked my strapless dress down, exposing me to a sea of shocked middle-aged on-lookers.
Be safe, Dahlia.
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
WHAAAAAATTTT
Was he immediately shunned by the rest of the attendees of the cotillion for being so very uncouth and unable to hold his drink like a true gentleman?
Did another guy come along, slap him in the face with a white glove and challenge him to a duel? Did you slap him in the face with your white glove and challenge him to a duel? At the very least, a pantsing?
Sadly there was no duel, although I wish there had been because that is probably the only dueling opportunity my life will ever present me!
Ugh, sadly I flashed tits at a Sweet 16 due to a strapless dress as well. But mine was not the fault of any drunken man … only my tiny, tiny boobs and their inability to hold anything up (including the strapless bra that I swear I was wearing)
Tiny boobage is why my grandmother had to alter the pattern of my strapless prom dress to add straps. *sob*
If only we had done the same…
Is it fair to assume that Sweet 16 is the Northeastern equivalent of a cotillion?
I feel bad saying this, but, I don't get it? Yeah, it's weird that the mom is getting so detailed-ly involved, but the girl does seem to be dressing inappropriately for the situation. I mean, clothing that won't close properly and boobs hanging out are frequently inappropriate choices, no?
I am puzzled that the mom invited the girlfriend on a family vacation when they clearly dislike one another, though – that's a bad choice waiting to happen right there.
Yeah, but it's not worth the whole thing the BF's mum puts on it. And here's the thing: The girl will soon realise this isn't appropriate everwhere and change of her own accord based on the way she's responded to.
It's not the BF's mum's business beyond maybe a 'so this event is a smart one so maybe get a nice dress and wear a bra' and then it's up to the gf.
I disagree only as far as the mom is bringing the girlfriend along and introducing her to their friends and family. It *will* reflect badly on the mother if her son's partner shows up falling out of her dress. "Gross, Marjorie, why did you bring this young woman to meet Grandma Meg?" The mistake was inviting the girlfriend at all. "This girl will soon realise this isn't appropriate everywhere" – yeah, but that point may come AFTER embarrassing the rest of this family.
Right, she is 19. No one knows how to be a person at 19 (if they do I don't want to hear about it).
If the concern is sartorial appropriateness in front of family and friends then that should have been addressed with the invite 'we'd love you to come along to this holiday! Some of the people are very conservative, though. I know you have a really individual style, but a lot of them won't understand that. Would you like to come shopping with me and we can pick out a couple of outfits for schmoozing? I'll pay/go halves, since it's my fault you'll need them!'
Of course, this tactic won't work so well if you've spent the last however-long sneering at her and making her feel disapproved. Good work, LW.
I think 'Dahlia' needs a WineRack. That would solve both the "freeboob"("Play 'Freeboob'!") issue, and the "passive-aggressive buzzing sound emanating from MIL's noise hole" issue.
Nothing made me cling harder or longer to a bad relationship in my teens and early twenties than the expressed disapproval of my mum. "You think I could do better mom, do you?! Right then, couples therapy and moving in together it is! Who cares if I hate him too!"
Famously for one boyfriend she said after 2.75 years together and constant vague dislike on her part "I'm getting used to [name redacted]". We were broken up within 3 months.
I suspect this will be the result of this mother's intervention as well.
It is AMAZING how bad Prudie's advice is. Like, it's like she thinks "what is the best advice in this situation?" and then gives the opposite in all cases. And I mean, crazy mother in law knew that "Dahlia" didn't like bras before she invited her on the vacation, why in God's name did she invite her on a vacation??
Her advice to the woman living with the married man is even so tortured and terrible, when that is pretty fucking easy advice to give: stop bitching about him giving money to his wife and children, a court will make him do that soon anyway, you were living alone before and now you have his added income, so your living situation only went up, and not down. But no, instead she had to tell the woman to kick the dude out, which she's obviously not going to do and will therefore ignore everything else you're saying. Oh Prudie, you are the worst.
I thought that, based on the title/intro of this article, we'd be close-reading Prudie's advice, not the letters. I was really disappointed that it was only the letter, because it's the low-hanging fruit, isn't it? I'd be much more interested in close-reading Prudie for Prudie.
If my wife's gchats to me ever get published as a book the title will definitely be "Close Reading Dear Prudie."
I love letter four. Your MIL thinks you're going to cheat on her son because your parents where cheaters? But she's not worried that her son, the son of a cheater will cheat?
NICOLE! Please close-read Prudie's advice instead of/in addition to the letters. Our greatest natural resource is Prudie's crazy, not the LWs' crazy!
Finding the perfect bra can be so difficult, but once you find it…you just want more! It's amazing that you finally found a maternity bra that you love, and feels comfortable! Now that you have a bra that you love, you should check out brayola.com a new service for women to help discover new bras that you will love (based on the bra you already have!)
Well recently listen about this from some place its minimal old pattern attempt to discover a flawless bra like strapless bra feels exceptionally good for games young ladies or other who doing normal base exercises.