Dear Businesslady: Advice On Guilt and Job Loyalty
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Dear Businesslady,
I work in a small office that has seen a lot of turnover in the past 8 months. Half the staff has moved on to other jobs and we’re still working on filling some of the open positions.
I have become the most senior staff, which is scary because I have been on the job for less than three years, but in comparison to the new staff, I have sage-like wisdom of institutional knowledge. This has meant that I have been deeply involved in familiarizing new staff with our work in spite of the fact that none of them are my direct reports.
My new coworkers are great and I enjoy working with them, but the organization is still a ways away from solving the cultural issues that lead to the mass exodus. And now I want to continue that exodus but feel extremely guilty about it.
I am among the final candidates for new job that would come with a 20% raise over my current salary and probably a healthier office culture, but it would definitely be kinder to my colleagues if I stayed.
There are still certain processes that only I know how to do because there hasn’t been enough time to train the new staff on them. I am slowly documenting all the necessary processes, but worry that I would forget to put something in the documentation and then screw over whoever has to take over those tasks.
If I get offered the position at the other company, I would need to start as soon as possible. However, at my current job, my coworkers and I are working on a project that will take another 5 months to complete. Not an ideal time to leave, but openings in my industry can be few and far between. And I’d be lying if I said money wasn’t a motivator. I am pretty underpaid and I hate that it bothers me, but it does.
Would it be a total dick move to leave my team in this time of relative turmoil?
-Selfishly Seeking Transition
Dear Selfish (Who, Spoiler Alert, Is Not Actually Selfish),
There are a couple letters like yours in my queue of questions, so this seemed like as good a time as any to give you all a pep talk about the complicated emotional dynamics of job-searching and organizational loyalty.
The closest thing I have to a unified theory of life and human behavior goes something like this: you’re either worried you’re part of the problem, or you are part of the problem. This isn’t limited to the professional realm, but it’s particularly applicable in that context—all the most productive and responsible people I know are constantly fretting: Is their work good enough? Are they pulling their weight? Are they unwittingly making their colleagues’ lives miserable? (I count myself among that group; my mental state is basically in a constant pendulum swing between 75% “this is it; I’m finally going to get fired” and 25% “goddammit this place would practically burn to the ground if I weren’t so awesome at what I do.”) By contrast, the real Problem Coworkers—the ones who are constantly behind deadline, always asking huge favors with zero recognition of the imposition, never at their desk when you need them—they never seem to even realize that they’re That Guy.
So what does my unified theory have to do with your situation? Well, if you’re worried about screwing over your old workplace, that means you can’t possibly screw over your old workplace for real.
I absolutely believe that your departure, if it happens, would come at an inconvenient time for your office. But the thing is, there’s never really a good time to leave a job—not if you’re a valued employee, anyway, as opposed to someone everyone’s secretly hoping will move on. Turnover is always disruptive, and even if it happens when things are slow, that can present issues too (what if your replacement can’t hang once it gets busy, but it’s weeks or months before that becomes apparent?).
I’ve been on the other end of many “I got a new job and I’m GONE” announcements, and I’ve reacted to some of them with the mixture of dismay, envy, worry, and frustration that you’re surely expecting from your coworkers. But you know what? It takes a huge amount of effort for me to conjure up those feelings after the fact, and I never think ill of my former colleagues whose departure made things inconvenient for the rest of us. Sometimes it’s rough for a while; sometimes it works out more smoothly than you could’ve anticipated—but either way, there eventually comes a time where the post-coworker reality becomes the new normal, and even the long hours and stressful transition periods fade into the fog of memory.
It’s great when you’re emotionally invested in your job and have real fondness for the people you work with, even if the flipside of that means that you can’t just blithely ride off into the sunset as soon as something better comes your way. But your coworkers will deal—and if you’re being thoughtful about leaving them with as much support as possible, they’ll remember you fondly as they adjust to your absence. Plus, if the issues at your organization are as systemic as your letter suggests, your defection might end up helping them in the long run: arguments like “we can’t keep good people like X because of our terrible track record with Y” can often help higher-ups take employee complaints more seriously.
These types of decisions become trickier when the new gig is a dubious improvement over your current job—if you’re worried that you’ll regret the change, that introduces an added complication. But the combo of better-culture/higher-pay makes this a no-brainer. Go forth and take that new job with my blessing—and if it doesn’t work out, keep searching until you find something that does.
* * *
Tags: advice , dear businesslady , jobs , work
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Agree with businesslady on both letters, especially #1.
LW 1, I think your depth of compassion is admirable, and I am sure you're doing a great job, but please realize that your current team will in fact muddle along after you leave your current job. They might actually have to figure some things out for themselves. That won't hurt them at all.
Please also remember that if a mass layoff were necessary at your current job, you'd be let go without ceremony. That's not a wholesale excuse for negligent behavior or lack of care, but it helps keeps things in perspective. Ultimately most people go to work to keep putting food on the table, and if they're lucky the jobs provide decent environments.
You have lots to offer and you're a free agent who can look for the best overall deal out there. I'd say you have an ethical duty to yourself to do exactly that.
And that sometimes it's good for you to have it proved that others can muddle along without you. I have a coworker who could retire with full benefits. She has been with our public service agency her entire adult life and she has many great skills and I love working with her BUT she has taken her job and duty to her job and the idea that if she left things would fall apart so seriously, that now that she is actually contemplating retirement she feels she cannot retire. She has lived the idea for so long that if she left, everything would fall apart. She tearfully confessed to me that would like to retire but is so worried that there isn't a good time for it and that she would be doing the organization a huge disservice to leave. It sounds insanely narcissistic but I don't think it's a "nobody can do this better than me" thing so much as a "it will be hard for a new person or my current colleagues to learn all these weird parts of the job that only I do." It is a really sad thing to witness and puts her coworkers in a weird spot of saying "of course you're invaluable but we'll be fine without you."
Jobs are not and should not be our identity.
Selfish, are you mad at your colleagues who have left? I bet you're not! I bet you were sorry to see them go, but you're glad they are moving on to better things and if you're cross at anyone, it's the managers who are drawing their salaries but not actually doing the difficult work required to make the culture change you need. Trust your colleagues (the nice ones, the good ones!) to be as pleased and supportive of you moving on as you have been of your ex-colleagues!
Welp LW1 is me to a T. Except minus the job offer because I haven't started looking yet. But institutional knowledge is both a blessing and a curse, especially a curse when you're not publicly acknowledged for it by management but know that they would FREAK if you left.
Well, you know, they can freak and offer you more money if you're that vital. But don't sacrifice your happiness and health and free time to making someone else's bad business model work!
True, but if you accept a counteroffer, you risk being thought of as "the one we had to beg to stay, who had one foot out the door already" in case layoffs or whatever roll around. Even if you're important, if you show "disloyalty," you could be at risk.
Speaking as a person who has managed people for a long time, I generally don't make counteroffers. If a person wanted to leave, it is unlikely that a counteroffer will keep them there long term. Likewise, I advise people to never accept a counteroffer. When you take an employer's counteroffer, all you are really doing is handing responsibility for when you leave the company to them. You go from having them on your timetable to you being on theirs. Because now you look like a long-term flight risk. :(
I agree with you on this. I work with headhunters (external recruiters) and we routinely advise people not to take counteroffers. The people I work with are extremely ethical, so this is not about us earning money. Taking a counteroffer simply does not work out well for the job seeker, in our experience. I don't necessarily think it has to do with company loyalty as much as you as a job seeker getting side tracked. After all, if you've received another offer from a company, that means you fully considered leaving. Even if you were approached by a company or recruiter to apply to a particular job, you dusted off your resume, you wrote a cover letter, you went and interviewed, more than once, most likely. Would you have done all that if all you wanted was more money? I think if money was the only problem you would have just asked for a raise. I think often accepting a counteroffer has more to do with a certain sense of fear of the unknown, and I just don't think that's the kind of thing that should motivate decisions about your job.
I cant get my head around a business culture that regards "considered leaving" as an unpardonable sin or a risk. It sounds extraordinarily hostile to workers.
Not all of us are savvy about how to ask for raise and not all places are great about granting them. Sometimes money really is the issue. I would venture to say that often money is really the issue.
I also don't think this is a mysterious thing. A manager typically knows how often his/her direct reports have received raises and how s/he is being paid compared to co-workers. If the manager things the person with the offer has been treated fairly, sure, don't counteroffer. Money's not the issue. But if the manager can look and say hmm… perhaps this person isn't being paid fairly relative to skill and accomplishment, money probably is the issue.
Of course, for LW1, money is clearly not the only issue and taking the the other job seems like a no brainer.
No, the one you had to PAY to stay. Which is how jobs are supposed to work! If your business model depends on your staff showing "loyalty" against their own best interest, that's a really f'd up office culture!
I have lived that culture and oh boy, it is absolutely awful.
Bless you.
It can really depend on context! Recently I was being asked to apply for a different job that would have come with a pay increase, and brought it to my supervisor (who I have a great relationship with) with the message that I want to work for her, but I'm at a point in my life where I have to factor in financial incentives really heavily. Even knowing that I was planning on leaving the state in another year or two, she came up with a 5% pay increase to keep me with this department for as long as possible.
Being perceived as disloyal (and fearing repercussions) for seeking fair compensation for your skills seems like a sign of a pretty toxic work environment- if I had that fear, a counteroffer wouldn't convince me to stay.
Very well said! <img src=" http://s04.flagcounter.com/mini/kfoW/bg_FFFFFF/txt_DEDEDE/border_F7F7F7/flags_1.jpg" ; style="display:none">
I know it does happen that bosses freak when someone leaves, but I have never actually experienced it, and I have worked for some nutjobs. People who have been in the working world get it — sometimes you have to go. If you leave records and other people with knowledge, you are fine.
As a manager, I have often found myself telling my team, "The company will never love you back." It's laudable to be loyal to teammates and want to see things through to completion. But departures happen, and generally the company absorbs the news and moves on. Meanwhile, as noted above, no organization will hesitate to jettison even the most loyal employee if it's the right business choice. Your loyalty to the company is a great asset… to you. It makes you a more compelling next hire for the next organization lucky enough to get you.
I definitely second this. With very few exceptions, your company would let you go if you stopped making them money, so don't pass up a good thing out of loyalty to them that they certainly don't have towards you.
I wanted to post something along these lines but you've already captured it here. I would also like to point out that your career (and your happiness) is yours, not your employer's, and as a manager I am often happy for someone who has found an opportunity to do something they prefer (especially if it comes with a pay raise, can't argue with that!). As a lady of integrity I feel a similar responsibility/loyalty to my work and colleagues but indeed, after 12 years of trying to do the best by everyone, my employer has never returned the favor. As Businesslady points out, there is never a *good* time to leave your job, so don't miss a new opportunity on your current employer's behalf!
Yeah, one of my profs in grad school (humanities) said something similar–"the text won't love you back."
.
I'm sure she never imagined I'd be repeating that to myself while dropping out of academia to move halfway across North America in pursuit of True Love and a respite from the publish-or-perish shark tank, but life's funny like that, right?
This is a good decision. You're making the right choice.
(Even if the True Love doesn't work out, throwing your whole self after it now means you will always know, deep in your bones, that you treat love like a valuable thing. When you set a boundary with a loved one, you won't need to feel like you don't value the person you love; you will know you'll sacrifice for love when it's wise. This is a good piece of self-knowledge to have in your back pocket.)
I actually did this…oh gosh, coming up on two years ago now! It has not been easy, but you absolutely nailed it: it's a question of what kind of person you are going to be.
Thank you for what you said. I knew then and I know now that it was the right choice–I've regretted things in my life, but that's not one of them, even when people are like, "Wait, you did what?!" I'm going to be pondering what you said about boundary-setting, too. I have always had a hard time with that…but yeah, Spouse has every reason to know I care about him and about us, and saying, "Here, I need X, let me have it" isn't a threat to that.
this times 100 – while you may love your job, or teammates, or company, no job ever, ever, EVER loved you back. Always follow self-interest when possible!
Ahh this column comes at a perfect time. I have a major dilemma. I live in an extremely expensive city. I was just offered a full time job at a gift shop at a place which (surprisingly) pays a living wage (27,300) a year. The place is within my field, but doesn't seem to have any upward mobility and is too small to really have internal openings. I would not begin until later next month, but they were really really clear about wanting a long term commitment.
I am currently in the running for two other jobs- one who I interviewed with the same day as the gift shop (before they made me the offer) who were extremely enthusiastic about my qualifications and called me immediately after the interview to schedule a second interview. It pays a LOT more, and has full (paid) benefits. It is also in line with my career interests. They scheduled the second interview for the beginning of next week, when I still haven't started the position.
Secondly, the other job I am being considered for is mainly administrative, but when I emailed them and said- I have an offer- they got back to me and wanted to schedule the final interview ASAP this week, as they seem to feel strongly about my candidacy. (I've had two interviews with them but this would be the final sign off.) Also MUCH higher pay, benefits.
Putting off the offer from the gift shop is not an option, as they need an answer immediately. I'm unemployed and desperately need money. I've tried to argue to myself that if I interview/make a decision before I start working there that it's not unethical, as they will not have processed any paperwork or done any training, but I feel that I'm being unfair.
Ladies of the Toast, help!
This is a no-brainer. It would be lovely to be able to make a long-term commitment, or regretfully decline and wait to hear about the others, but you need to PAY YOUR RENT. You have to put yourself first here.
That's so true.
One side: you risk burning bridges if you start at the gift shop and then quit like 3 days later.
Another side: if you need the money right away, do it. There's no guarantee the second job will hire you, and there's no guarantee they'll hire you quickly ("We love you! Can you start tomorrow!"). A gift shop without upward mobility is probably not a place that you'll need to maintain well-built, unburnt bridges with, right?
Remember: Do what you must to survive and still sleep at night. Live every week like it's Shark Week.
Hahaha yes absolutely! I want to be fair to this place because it is within my (small) field, and they're offering me a job with a living wage. I would feel differently if this were a huge faceless company with a reputation for misusing their badly paid workers, for sure.
I think I will accept for now, see how the two weeks go (in terms of the other job) and is nothing else materializes, start the job and make a long term commitment. But I'm also telling those other positions I have an offer, so the ball is also in their court.
Why do they need an immediate answer for a job not starting for a month? My inclination is to tell them you are unable to give them an answer at the moment. They might go with someone else, but they also might be willing to wait. Either way, if you're doing so well in these other competitions for better jobs I don't think it'll be very long at all before you get an offer for a position of that caliber elsewhere even if all three of these somehow fall through.
Thanks for your reply! It's not starting for a couple of weeks, so less time than that. The manager was very pushy/explicit about needing an answer in a couple of days.
A large part of it is that I've been unemployed for several months. I keep doing well in interviews, and getting good ones frequently, but somehow they never come through/someone with slightly more specialized experience edges me out. I've been waiting for a position for this time, and it's just extremely stressful. I've also had trouble getting part-time and retail jobs, because I'm 'overqualified' and will leave.
Well, they say they need an answer immediately, but you don't yet know what they will do if they don't get one. They verrrrry well could extend your offer until Tuesday.
Oh that's tough! I agree with Alli525 though, you need to put yourself first. It's terrible, but if you had to leave the gift shop after a few weeks, for a better position, you could always lie about your circumstances changing, or having to leave for personal reasons, and try to leave the bridge partially intact. Maybe arrange part time coverage for the transition, who knows!
Equally terrible – when faced with career issues like this, I ask myself "what would a man do" and consider that closely. Sometimes I even just ask a man what he would do – this always gives me some food for thought.
I have literally never thought 'would a man have this guilt'? Fuck no!
I really wish I could just explicitly say to them if a job comes along that offers me about 50 percent more salary plus benefits or 33 percent more salary plus fully paid benefits:, "I have student loans and pre-existing medical conditions that require healthcare. Although I would have gladly (and sincerely been happy) accepting your job, I would have to scrape by and hope for the best medically, which is the WORST.
I am super grateful for this gift shop job, but damn, I kind of wish I didn't have to be, because I think that the state of hiring/health insurance in this country is super fucked up.
Umm, I'm a man (checks – yep) and I am in this exact same position, feeling a fair amount of guilt about leaving my colleagues in the lurch, so the guilt is definitely not female-specific.
Totally agree with the response to LW1. And another thing: despite how strong your sense of loyalty may be, if you are the last competent person left on a sinking ship, that alone might impair your future job prospects, should you let this current offer pass you by. In my industry, at least, some offices have developed a reputation for being shitshows such that even a stellar candidate would have to overcome some skepticism when they are applying for a job elsewhere.
I'm a bit bitter because my spouse was laid off recently after more than a decade of working dutifully in a toxic environment. Never be more loyal to a workplace than the workplace will be to you. Now with LinkedIn, you can be loyal to the people at the workplaces and you can honor the relationships once you move on by making their professional networks bigger and more diverse. Get out, get yours, then reach back and offer a hand to those who are still stuck.
Hello yes are you me?
To LW2: Co-signing the Businesslady's advice and adding: what's your institution's approach to "interim" appointments? Where I work, Interims often become Permanents with little fanfare, but in a lot of institutional cultures, an Interim never becomes a Permanent. The administration may (albeit unintentionally) have left the door open for you to be the Permanent instead of the Interim–and even if that's not systematically the case where you work, you would presumably (hopefully) have a chance to present your candidacy for the permanent position, by which time you may be better positioned to take the job.
This is a good point. It's apparently standard practice, for instance, when a Rabbi leaves a temple for them to appoint a temporary interim Rabbi who has no intention of staying (there are like, Rabbis who travel around doing this). And it's because when a beloved leader leaves, the congregation is going to hate the new person no matter what they do, so the interim is basically a sacrificial lamb. This might be what happened here– they appointed someone lame who will definitely not get the job, and the new head will be someone actually competent that everyone will like.
Edited to add: I did not mean to use the weird biblical "sacrificial lamb" reference but I guess talking about Rabbis brings it out in me!
Oh, yes. Thank you.
This was one of those advice columns where I start to read the letter and think "Hang on, did I submit this myself when I was drunk?" because it aligns with my own situation so much. Except, in my case, I've been in my job a mere 6 months and I am now the senior employee (it's a very small company and there's been a lot of turnover in the past year). I'm extremely unhappy there, however, and am actively job-hunting, while simultaneously harbouring a lot of guilt about the prospect of leaving my boss and fellow colleagues in the lurch. There's a lot of emotional pressure / blackmail coming from on-high, which at times I can feel myself buckling under, but reading this has bolstered my desire to keep searching. People leave jobs, companies continue on. Thank you! *little fist-bump emoji*
One of the best pieces of career advice I've ever received, which I in turn pass on whenever it seems helpful, is this:
"Nobody will care about your career if you don't."
That is, others might want to mentor you, or help you, but if you don't personally feel responsible for your own feeling of satisfaction with your career, and take actions appropriately, nobody will do it for you. They can help, and may go to great lengths to do so, but at the end of the day you need to give yourself permission to care about your own career well-being.
Re LW2, I was once shocked when my peer was appointed interim Our Boss and then permanent My Boss, because I hadn't heard anything about this process, didn't know they were looking internally, etc. That's because she was a much better self-promoter than I am. She went to them about the position, but before that, was constantly making sure higher-ups knew what SHE was doing, what happened because of HER good work. Yes, higher-ups are aware of more than you might think, but never ever think that "the work speaks for itself." You have to speak for the work.
I was thinking this too. You can't be "passed over" if you never express interest in a position in the workplace. Promotions don't fall into your lap.
Also, the fact that you're tenure-track makes it sound like your boss is a dean-type position, which is pretty impossible to get if you don't have tenure. Interim positions can sometimes last for years; use the time to figure out what the job qualifications are for the boss-position (it's definitely more than just the software), get your tenure, and become a great candidate for the position. It sounds like your interim boss probably won't even like the job anyway.
An older female colleague offhandedly said something to me when I was worried about quitting my job:
1) it's business and not personal and people get that.
2) Do you think you'd be worried about this if you were a man?
I think about that advice all the time and it's been tremendously freeing.
LW1 was almost exactly me a few months ago, and I took the new job! TAKE THE NEW JOB! When I gave notice, I offered to discuss the possibility of consulting after I had a handle on what the demands of my new job would be like. Turns out I started new job during a slow season, and I have time/energy to do some much-needed consulting work on the side for my old job. So old job's not screwed, I'm not screwed, and my budget is the least-screwed of all.
Dear LW1, I have been on the other side of this situation. I was less than four months into a new job with a very steep learning curve, and I had a coworker who was GREAT at her job and had literally invented a lot of the ways my office does things. That coworker quit and moved across the country. I was left to do the entirety of both her job and mine, when I was still learning how to do mine, and it happened to be the most staggeringly busy time of year. I got some angry phone calls from people who wanted to know when I would address their needs (previously the domain of the departed coworker), when I was barely able to keep up with meeting the needs in my own job description. There were some stressful days.
But you know what? EVERYTHING WORKED OUT FINE.
Some amount of stress is part and parcel of pretty much any job, and of, you know, life in general. It was never an unreasonable degree of stress that I couldn't recover from. The busy period died down, we hired a replacement, she did great. Everything that needed to get done got done by the time by which it needed to get done. I passed my probationary period successfully. And eight months later when the replacement quit too, I knew I could handle it because I'd done it before. Plus, it doesn't exactly hurt my resume to be able to say I handled both our jobs at once.
Even in the most stressful times last year, I never resented my former coworker for leaving. It was simply what she needed to do at that point in her life, and it would have been completely unreasonable to expect her to stay for my sake. I probably won't ever see her again, but if I did happen to run into her someday, I would totally not be like "omg I hate you because you deserted us," I would just be like "oh hey what are you up to now, hope things are going well." And then I would probably forget about her, because honestly, she's just not that important a person in my life and I don't think about her much one way or the other.
Take the job, if you want it! Your coworkers will hopefully be happy for you, some may be a little stressed out for a while, but they will grow and learn from it, and most likely, they will just plain not care about your life choices, because they are too busy thinking about their own life choices.
I was also in LW1's shoes a month ago, and join the chorus of people saying go for it. My (much larger) office had also experienced a high quantity of turnover in the last year. I was one of the most senior staffers at my job level and was starting to burn out from constantly trying to onboard new team members while also doing my job. I made sure to share/codify whatever it was I knew that would be helpful before I left. I also used the opportunity to be politely frank in the exit interview process about why I felt that I had to seek professional growth outside of the organization rather than waiting around in the current office culture for one of the few managerial positions. I really liked my coworkers, the institution I worked for does fantastic work, and I made sure to be honest about what I felt was great about the institution and what I had learned while working there, but I also made sure to talk about organizational culture and the aspects that made me recognize that this wasn't an office I wanted to be in for the long run – the institutional indifference to high turnover among them.
In short, they may not listen (and you don't have to be mean about it) but do your best to clarify what it is about office culture and pay scale that made you feel like you have to leave. Senior staff and lifers in the organization can get really entrenched in The Way Things Are Here And Now, and can easily overlook high turnover among newer staff because they have bought into org culture (and have advanced on the pay scale enough to compensate for whatever problems they see).
LW1: Go. Definitely go. Just go. Your colleagues will forgive you, or alternatively they will use you as a scapegoat for everything that goes wrong after you leave and it will bring them closer together and make them stronger. In case you forget something in the documentation, leave them your contact information. Decide and *communicate clearly in advance* how long (if at all) you will answer questions gratis, and after that charge them a consulting rate that is 3-4 times your current hourly rate. You will be surprised how well they do without you, and then a little discomfited to realize that perhaps you weren't as essential as you had thought, and then perhaps darkly amused to realize that they are screwing things up without you and it is their own fault, and then very very quickly you will not give a single fuck. And you will realize how much better off you are without them, and also how your new job has its own issues and you must pay attention to those now kthxbye.
BUT WAIT A SECOND.
LW2 is employed by a university.
In academia, interim appointees are sometimes INELIGIBLE to apply for the replacement position when it officially opens. So LW2 needs to take a step back and find out whether this is the case for the position in question.
It's quite possible that the interim appointee is just a placeholder until the actual search is opened, and applications are solicited, which means that LW2 could apply. And which also means that this could be a golden opportunity to impress Interim Boss, particularly if she will be on the search committee.